Posted December 09, 2013

Heisman Watch Week 15: Florida State’s Winston could win by historic margin

A.J. McCarron, Heisman, Heisman Trophy, Heisman Watch, Jameis Winston, Johnny Football, Johnny Manziel
There's no doubt Jameis Winston will win the Heisman. The big question is: How much will he win by?

It’s clear Jameis Winston will win the Heisman. The big question is, how much will he win by? (Bob Leverone/AP)

If you’re looking for drama, you might want to skip Saturday’s Heisman Trophy ceremony. This one is likely to be yet another dominating performance by Jameis Winston.

Florida State’s quarterback will be the runaway winner of the 2013 Heisman Trophy after putting together a remarkable redshirt freshman season. Winston is the headliner of a top-ranked Seminoles team that will face Auburn for the final BCS title. And just as Florida State has steamrolled every opponent on its schedule, Winston is primed to win the Heisman with the backing of a historic voting margin.

According to Kari Chisholm of StiffArmTrophy.com, who measures voting margin based on a percentage of points possible, USC running back Reggie Bush claimed the 2005 Heisman –before it was nullified — with 2,541 of the possible 2,769 total points, or 91.77 percent. Ohio State quarterback Troy Smith garnered 91.63 percent of points possible in 2006 for the second-highest margin of victory.

After Bush and Smith, no other Heisman winner has earned more than 86 percent of that year’s possible points. Winston has a chance to rank among the top three in all-time voting margin after Saturday’s ceremony.

Cast your ballot in SI.com’s annual People’s Heisman vote

That’s because he faces so few challengers after an up-and-down season of Heisman candidates. Names such as Texas A&M’s Johnny Manziel, Oregon’s Marcus Mariota and Ohio State’s Braxton Miller are all plagued by at least one bad loss or one poor on-field performance. Winston is the only candidate to remain consistently dominant and efficient as the leader of an unbeaten program in the hunt for a national title.

There’s also the matter of voting regions, which could shake up portions of the Heisman electorate. For example, how would SEC voters in the South section, Winston’s home region, cast their ballots with respect to Auburn running back Tre Mason, Alabama quarterback AJ McCarron or even Manziel? Could Boston College running back Andre Williams steal votes in the Northeast region, which is home to no other Heisman contender? Perhaps Mariota could present the same challange with voters in the Far West?

That’s why this year’s Heisman finish beyond Winston is so hard to predict. The Heisman Trust doesn’t allow voters to publicly share their ballots this season, so the following list does not reflect my personal Heisman ballot. Rather, it is an indication of how I expect the Heisman finish to shape up this weekend.

1. Jameis Winston, QB Florida State

Season stats: 237-of-349 passing for 3,820 yards, 38 TDs, 10 INTs; 77 rushes for 193 yards, 4 TDs

Winston would have locked up the Heisman long ago if not for the sexual assault investigation that lingered over the last month of his season. Winston’s college career – and, in reality, much more — hung in jeopardy due to the very serious allegation. But when Florida state attorney Willie Meggs determined last week that not enough evidence existed to seek charges on Winston, the quarterback’s path to the Heisman was all but cemented.

No one doubted Winston’s credentials on the field. The first-year starter was hyped up during the offseason as the talented replacement for the departed E.J. Manuel, and he delivered from the get-go by completing 25-of-27 passes for 356 yards and four touchdowns in the ‘Noles opener against Pitt.

Winston finished the year as the nation’s best in passing efficiency (190.1) and QBR (90.9) while also leading the country in yards-per-attempt (10.9) and finishing second in total touchdowns (38). He threw for at least 300 yards seven times and put up four games with at least four touchdown passes. Moreover, his veteran-like numbers in an October rout of No. 3 Clemson in Death Valley (444 yards, four total touchdowns) will go down as the defining game of his Heisman season.

Perhaps the most amazing part of Winston’s Heisman season is this: No one cares that he’s a redshirt freshman. That narrative dominated Manziel’s campaign last year when he became the first freshman to win the award. But Winston’s season further proved that voters don’t seem to care anymore about a player’s experience. If you’re considered the best player in the country and you prove it, you have a chance to hoist the Heisman.

MANDEL: One test left for Florida State, Winston after routing Duke for ACC title

2. Tre Mason, RB Auburn

Season stats: 283 rushes for 1,621 yards, 22 TDs

Mason might not even be the best running back in the country. One could argue that Williams at Boston College and Arizona’s Ka’Deem Carey have been more productive ‘backs this year. But Mason’s 305-yard, four-touchdown finish to the season against Missouri in the SEC title game will land the Tigers’ rusher on a number of Heisman ballots, and because that game took place Saturday, Mason might even jump up to No. 2.

The quick leap to runner-up is partly due to a lack of serious contenders behind Winston, but it’s also hard to ignore that Mason is one of the key cogs on an offense that’s shocked the country and reached the BCS title game. That’s a perfect Heisman narrative.

STAPLES: With title game berth, Auburn’s miracle turnaround is complete

The numbers don't lie. Boston College's Andre Williams belongs in New York.

The numbers don’t lie. Boston College’s Andre Williams belongs in New York. (Patrick Semansky/AP)

3. Andre Williams, RB Boston College

Season stats: 329 rushes for 2,102 yards, 17 TDs

Williams looked like a video-game running back with his numbers this season. He finished as the only player in the FBS with more than 2,000 yards on the ground, and his surge in the second half of the season lifted him into the Heisman conversation. Prior to the Eagles’ regular-season finale against Syracuse, Williams had rushed for at least 263 yards in three straight games.

However, he left a bad taste in many voters’ mouths after accounting for a season-low 29 yards when he left the game early against the Orange on Nov. 30. Still, Williams’ insane numbers and overall body of work could convince a hefty number of Heisman voters to include his name on their ballots.

4. Johnny Manziel, QB Texas A&M

Season stats: 270-of-391 passing for 3,732 yards, 33 TDs, 13 INTs; 133 rushes for 686 yards, 8 TDs

Heisman history dictated that Manziel’s shot at winning the trophy was slim. Only one player, Ohio State’s Archie Griffin, had ever claimed the Heisman twice. But Manziel continued to captivate much of the country with his sensational style of play and remained in the conversation.

Losses to Alabama and Auburn didn’t hurt Manziel as much because the quarterback still put up impressive numbers in those games. What did hurt Manziel were A&M’s final two losses to LSU and Missouri, in which the redshirt sophomore accounted for two touchdowns alongside two interceptions in perhaps the worst games of his career.

But Manziel is a prime example of a player whom voters might view from a holistic perspective. Sure, the quarterback didn’t excel against all obstacles in a tough SEC schedule, but many followers of college football still believe Manziel is flat-out the best player in the game. There are very few players like Manziel in the country; despite his struggles, he still finished with the most total offense of any player in an AQ conference. Some Heisman voters might step back and vote based on talent instead of performance, and Manziel could again reach New York as a finalist despite a four-loss campaign.

5. AJ McCarron, QB Alabama

Season stats: 207-of-386 passing for 2,676 yards, 26 TDs, 5 INTs

A couple of weeks ago, SI.com’s Stewart Mandel described McCarron as the “in case of emergency” candidate. That a fairly accurate assessment of McCarron, Alabama’s unheralded three-year starter who entered the season in search of a third straight BCS title. The quarterback is unheralded because he won’t wow you with stats – his 2,676 passing yards rank 39th in FBS. He’s more prone to complete 15 passes for 150 yards than to put up Winston-like numbers.

But McCarron sticks around in Heisman voters’ minds because he’s efficient and, fair or not, he wins. Some have a hard time separating McCarron’s career achievements – which shouldn’t matter in a Heisman race – from his 2013 accomplishments. Up until Alabama’s loss in the Iron Bowl to close the season, McCarron boasted as many losses (two) as BCS title rings, yet he’s never sniffed New York as a Heisman finalist.

The argument is not whether McCarron is a good player; it’s whether he’s good enough for Heisman consideration. He wouldn’t be if the race were stocked with bona fide candidates behind Winston. So that’s why this could be the time for McCarron to sneak into the picture, even though Alabama won’t win the BCS title.

UPDATE: SI.com’s Heisman Watch was published before the six Heisman finalists were announced on Monday. Northern Illinois quarterback Jordan Lynch will join these five players as finalists at Saturday’s ceremony in New York.

MANDEL: College Football Overtime: Final BCS season brings questions, not controversy; more Overtime

55 comments
cowboyspencer
cowboyspencer

If Winston does win by a historic margin, it just reinforces that the voters don't know what they're doing.  It's Andre Ware again, just without Andre Ware's statistics.  


Mariota, Manziel, and Petty all had better seasons statistically against harder competition.  

Robert96
Robert96

He is a disgusting rapist...........despicable.


Sandy2300
Sandy2300

After reading over 50 posts below, it's pretty evident they are posted by people biased for their own school and candidate...including me.

DGoodman
DGoodman

Oregon's QB Marcus Mariota should be invited: 227 of 360 (63.1%) for 3412 yds; 30 TDs; 4 Ints; 81 rushes for 582 yds and 9 TDs.

JonOpperman
JonOpperman

Reggie Bush forfeited his Heisman in 2010 for accepting 'gifts'...need more be said?

Choutsu
Choutsu

My dislike for Winston has nothing to do with the rape allegations. We will never really know about that so innocent until proven guilty.


I just don't like him because he doesn't come across as confident, but arrogant. Every time he addresses the media he talks like he is preaching and talking down to lesser beings and it's annoying, like he is the chosen one. He actually grabbed the microphone out of a reporter's hand after one win to begin his sermon, while looking at the camera like he was on set. Manning doesn't even do that. Beat a few top 10 teams and win a championship before you go that far man.

Adolfis
Adolfis

If Winston wins the Heisman I will have lost all respect for the NCAA. Either way the events that unfolded that night about a year ago for him to held up on such a high pedestal is sickening. If the events were consensual and he picked up a drunk girl from a bar to take home and have sex with her the night before his girlfriend was to arrive and have his so called teammates watch and even ask for a turn shows what little character he has and how lacking of a moral compass that will drive him through life. If it was consensual then all parties involved are corrupt to their core.


If he raped her and is hiding behind the money that being a top athlete at FSU (or any other big program) and has his teammates giving false accounts of that evening is even worse.


And yet there are so many that are singing this persons praise. They will be cheering him on before, during and after the game. Having so many kids and parents look up to him and thinking he is such a good role model makes me sad. Because when these kids make it to the NCAA level, what behavior will they think is ok to try and get away with. 


Stay classy FSU.

phinsxiii
phinsxiii

Consensual Sex requires OK by both parties.  When one party is too drunk to give consent, then it is not consensual.  I don't see any candidates with a rape allegation on the list of previous Heisman winners.  Lets not start now.

Nubian Spearchuker
Nubian Spearchuker

No way Winston should win the H. He played in a week conference against a bunch of patsies. They would have had 4 or 5 losses in the SEC, Pac 12 or Big 12. Auburn will destroy them.

TaylorHoppe
TaylorHoppe

Bryce petty is not on this list? He led Baylor to the school'f first big 12 conference title

Redfish
Redfish

Manziel struggled against LSU and Missouri because the thumb on his right hand was so swollen he could not hold a toothbrush. Kid stilled played and competed without making any excuses. Still is 3rd in total offense in the nation, 3rd in passing efficiency in the nation, 9th in passing yards in nation. He's not going to win it, but he is the best player in college football and about the only individual player people tune in to watch week in and week out. If he does return for his junior year - with a more experienced defense, A&M could be headed for a national title.

NoQNoSuperBowl
NoQNoSuperBowl

Why are people upset that Jameis had sex with a coed? It's not the first time something like that happened. That's nothing good or bad about his character.

John-PauldeBernardo
John-PauldeBernardo

Andre Williams - A 2100 yard performance - thus far (and missing most of his last game) ranks him in the top 5  all-time.  Add whatever he does in his bowl game, he may end up in the top 3.   How rare, outstanding, and Heisman-worthy is that?  Plus a 3.0 GPA in a "real" major at an an "academically-demanding" university, Boston College.


His performance - the Heisman is awarded for performance - is uniquely unmatched by other contenders because he was NOT surrounded by a NFL-Certain offensive line (or ends!)


Finally, his exceptionally admirable and untarnished character and personality make him ideally suited to the high standards of the Heisman ideals.

MichaelSullivan2
MichaelSullivan2

And the rest of you rape victims you all just keep your mouths SHUT. We're on the way with your big bag of cash.


Adolfis
Adolfis

@Sandy2300


Well Sandy it to bad you happen to leave out integrity and morality from your decision!


Stay classy FSU!

Sandy2300
Sandy2300

Gifts? Like a house for his parents?

Sandy2300
Sandy2300

In response to Adolphis, maybe you should do some research, and also give some thought to the Duke LaCrosse players who really suffered. Their accuser was later found to be lying. Sadly, in some cases innocent lives can be ruined, and it's wrong to jump to conclusions. In this case the SA decided there was not enough evidence to go forward. Winston was not a star at the time. He had never been on the football or baseball field in a game for FSU when this happened last year. After the TPD investigated, two months later, the accuser (not victim) basically did not chose to go further with the case. Strangely and suddenly after playing and doing very well in both sports this year, someone gets the case stirred up again a few months ago. The toxicology report showed she was not drunk nor did she have drugs in her system. It's sad, but reality is that "hook-ups" seem to be pretty pervasive on college campuses today, and BOTH the accuser and the accused had out of town boy/girl friends. Reportedly, the accuser was a member of a group of girls that called themselves the FSUcleatchasers. There were two witnesses (which I assume are under oath) that collaborated Winston's account. I just think it's wrong to assume someone is a rapist when there is no proof. Additionally, the behavior is certainly nothing to look up to, but I'm more than certain that it is behavior that is extremely common among both athletes and non-athletes on every college campus. Winston is innocent unless proven guilty, and his performance as a red-shirt freshman QB has been incredible and worthy of the Heisman.

Stay classy FSU? I think the University, the coaches and the entire team have been very classy and focused throughout the whole situation. It's important to also note that a great deal of money and prestige is on the line in this case; and jealousy, and hatred can also be factored into motivation...by whomever...

stiffasaward
stiffasaward

Sadly you have a lot of "allegations" and zero facts.  One thing the girl wasn't drunk, she passed her BAC the cops administered to her.

Once Alabama (on probation at one point for 20+ straight years - was on probation when they defeated TX for BCS - coaches paying/loaning $ to Ha-Ha Clinton-Dix - Albert Means, etc) and Auburn (paying Cam Newton) man up & disqualify themselves - or better yet the NCAA stops looking the other way when it comes to SEC schools then you'd have an argument. 


Stay classy Alabama

Stay classy Auburn

Stay classy SEC

NoQNoSuperBowl
NoQNoSuperBowl

@Adolfis So because Winston was accused of doing something he has no character. Do you have any idea how ridiculous and un-American that is?

stiffasaward
stiffasaward

She passed the BAC the police gave her - that means she was not drunk.  Try again.

yehonala04
yehonala04

@Nubian Spearchuker No $ec school other than florida has chosen to honor a scheduled game contract with FSU since Alabama in 2007 played in jacksonville. FSU won 21-14. Auburn ,LSU,.South Carolina  and Tennessee had scheduled games which they never honored. I f  FSU is  so weak why the reluctance to play them ? Tallahassee has an airport and an Interstate going thru it. Not difficult for 7 members of the  $ec as it is less than 10 hour drive.  

rh2000
rh2000

@NoQNoSuperBowl   I guess stupidity should not be held against him?   He put himself in a situation where someone could call rape?  Quite frankly he probably did force himself on her and is now paying her off through boosters to clear his name.  My opinion and right or wrong he shouldn't get it.  You can like my position or not!  I don't care.

Adolfis
Adolfis

@John-PauldeBernardo Toby Gerhart from 2009 should have won the Heisman, but lost to Mark Ingram? HOW DID THAT HAPPEN?

Gerhart led the nation in almost every offensive category that a running back could and yet he lost out to another running back. HE won the Doak Walker Award, the Archie Griffen Award and the Jim Brown Award.


I am still scratching my head on that one. He was robbed of the Heisman and for the life in me I can not put my finger on the one single card that would make sense for him not to win it.

Adolfis
Adolfis

@Sandy2300

And money and cars and money! Which are all not allowed! 

Nice lack or character and morals Sandy!

Adolfis
Adolfis

@Sandy2300 Sandy, I dont think a reply like yours is very believable! How can you sit there and talk about Duke in the same conversation as Winston winning the Heisman. The two events are for two totally different conversations.


It seems as if your missing the context and total body of my argument in relationship to you being a FSU fan. You say I am accusing him of rape? Apparently reading comprehension is not your strong point. I talked about the morality and character of individuals that target drunk girls and bring them back fr gang bangs or just to have their roommates watch even on the night before their girlfriend is to come into town.


You mention "hookups" which this wasnt. A hookup is between two people, not 5 guys and 1 girl.

You mention lying? What and how does that come into play when Winston admitted having sex with her and that he picked her up and brought her home to have sex with her. He and his roommates admitted to it. He admitted to knowing his roommates where watching. The roommates admitted to watching. His roommates admitted to asking for a turn. The roommates have gone on record saying that this was not the first time they had gang bangs (train rides) in the room. The roommates have admitted to sharing women.


Get your facts straight. Her BAC was .04 hours after the incident. Her BAC was estimated to be higher than .10 at the time of the "incident". The amount of booze she consumed while at the bar supports her BAC being well above .10. GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT.


It has never been verified that she was a so called cleat chaser. Not one report. Not one text message, not one shred of evidence except what is being thrown around on message boards.


The two witnesses just so happen to be his roommates and teammates and also admitted participants in these train ride aka gang bangs so their credibility is automatically thrown out of the window.


Winston won the starting position in spring practice so he was not an unknown at the start of football season. and I am sure that the campus and true FSU fans knew who he was when he enrolled. They knew that they had a frosh that had more skills than any of their current qb's on the roster. Most of college football fans in the south knew it. Heck I knew it and I am not an FSU fanboy.


Stay classy FSU is 100% correct. Who is paying for Winstons attorney? Those legal cost are way more than the stipend he gets each month. GOOOO BOOOSTERS GO!


And FYI I would have rooted for FSU in the BCS NC game because I am a Floridian. I only root against FSU 1 week a year. But this year I can not lower my moral compass to root for this player or program. Jealousy? Its called morals and I hope if you have kids you actually teach them some. Because if your boys want to have Winston as a role model then that is a sad day for parenting.


ANd I am glad you saved the best bit for the end of your statement. " It's important to also note that a great deal of money and prestige is on the line in this case" You have that 100% correct. Both FSU and Winston know it and they will do and say anything to ensure they get every dollar they can by spending as much as they can to get this to go away.


People like you Sandy make me real sad knowing that you support a full and complete lack of character and morals.


So once again! STAY CLASSY FSU!

Adolfis
Adolfis

@stiffasaward 20+ years huh? Can you list your source for that information or do you have the same problem that Bama has when it comes to counting National Titles? (which means you add more to the total than you should)

Adolfis
Adolfis

@stiffasaward

Fact: Her BAC was .04 hours after the "incident" which allowed medical professionals to estimate her BAc was greater than .10 during the "incident"


Cam Newton, Ha-ha etc just makes my point about kids seeing what type of behavior their role models can get away with so it allows them to push the envelope.


Would you care to keep proving all of my points I made Mr. Stiff?


Stay Classy FSU!


BTW I am not a Bama or Auburn fan.

JonOpperman
JonOpperman

I agree.  Winston should 'man-up' and withdraw his name.

Adolfis
Adolfis

@NoQNoSuperBowl @Adolfis


Accused? He and his roommates have admitted to having gang bangs in the past. Dont believe me read the report TPD released. No character, morals or class.


Accused? He admitted that the whole event happened. He admitted he had sex with her. His roommates (teammates) admitted they watched and did ask if they could have a turn! No character, morals or class.


Accused? Dont make me laugh saying accused! He admitted to the consensual sex act and that his roommates watched and did ask! No character, morals or class.


Stay classy FSU!

JonOpperman
JonOpperman

If you are so loose with your off-field behaviour that such charges *might* have merit, you don't have the 'integrity' of a Heisman winner.

Ohio State vacated a whole season of wins and their post-season hopes over tattoos.  Even worse for Penn State over the actions of a former assistant coach.  All those players were penalized for stuff they didn't do, yet the argument is a rape allegation where at the very least impropriety is admitted doesn't negate the Heisman candidacy.  This game is tarnished by the gatekeepers if they choose to ignore the blemish on this kid's integrity.

Adolfis
Adolfis

@stiffasaward stiff get your facts straight. Her BAC was .04 when measured hours after the "incident". Her BAC at the time of the "incident" was greater than .10!

Adolfis
Adolfis

@yehonala04 @phinsxiii Accuse? I am 100% sure the TPD report says otherwise. Winston did have sex with a drunk girl. His roommates watched and even asked for a turn!

Choutsu
Choutsu

@yehonala04 @Nubian Spearchuker I think his point is that FSU hasn't really been tested with their weak schedule, so there is kind of a mystery as to what they can really handle.


NoQNoSuperBowl
NoQNoSuperBowl

@rh2000 @NoQNoSuperBowl A college student having sex with another college student is stupid? That would make a very large percentage of college students very stupid.

JoeCabot
JoeCabot

Any woman can call rape.  Ask Brian Banks or the Duke lacrosse team.   And yes you can make all the allegations that you wish.  Thankfully we have a criminal justice system and not just a court of public opinion made up of knee-jerkers like yourself.

Adolfis
Adolfis

@Sandy2300 Yeah bcuz sarcastic whit is so rare on this comment board!


I am not judging others, I am sure it is all contained in the TPD report!


Stay Classy Florida State Criminoles!

Sandy2300
Sandy2300

Duh, Adolfis. Although you display the quintessential 'holier than thou' attitude throughout this entire thread, you're not very good at recognizing sarcasm. A "gift" might be a box of candy. Must be nice to be so perfect that it's your duty to judge others.

Stay classy, Adolfis.

Adolfis
Adolfis

@Sandy2300 First of all my judgments are made from Winstons collaborators in this event. From their statements that they made to TPD. If you dont believe it then read the report.


The SA did not say there was not enough evidence to charge. He said there was not enough evidence for a conviction. Two totally different things.


Both sides of the story were full of inconsistencies. Not just hers but Winstons witnesses as well. At one time a witness does not recall them going into the bathroom then the next he does. At one time the witness does not see Winston talking to this girl and the next he does. It would be interesting to see the video that does/did exist from that night.  All of that and more comes from information that came from those witness full of integrity.


The sample of DNA that belonged to her boyfriend could have come from anytime. You do know her boyfriend does not live in Tallahassee dont you. Her boyfriend was not even in town that day. I never said the girl was a saint did I?


You make it sound as if Winston and his roommates are choir boys. They are far from. They admit to picking up and sharing several females in the past for train rides. Now thats what I call character!


I never talked about this girls attorney or her affiliations. Heck I never said she was a good attorney did I? I know if this were my family I would have fired the attorney withing the first two weeks of how she handled the case. Because as an attorney she completely blows. I guess thats why she is not a State Prosecutor anymore.


The reference you made about the Duke Lacross team has no bearing on my argument about Winstons lack of character and morals. If Winston had character he would have never put himself in this situation. If he had integrity he would have left well enough alone and waited for hid girlfriend to come into town. I was not talking about the accusations she made against Winston. I am talking about the lack of integrity, character and morals that put Winston in this situation! 


The name of the person or group that  paid for Winstons attorney will be coming out soon. It has to because Winston has to declare it. NCAA is rather tight on that. Its rather odd that these kids who say they can barely afford to go to school can get the luxury of a high paid attorney that is paid for by somebody else.


Winston was officially named the starter in Aug of this year. Everybody including all of the Semenole fans I know, numerous reporters that cover the Noles and  ESPN knew Winston would be named the starter from his performance in the Spring. The only reason Jimbo did not announce it was because he did not want Coker to transfer to another school.


You have the nerve to say this is not about morality and integrity? Well then your line of thinking is part of the problem. These kids are the face of the big money programs. They have little kids that look up to them as role models. Integrity, character and morality is required.


And unfortunately those are things that Winston has none of.

Sandy2300
Sandy2300

Thank you for worrying about my children and their role model, Adolfis. I have three, they are grown, have families of their own, and their role models are their parents; their father being a 30+ year career Naval officer and aviator.

Were you there, Adolfis? Reading your very classy description of the events, it certainly seems so...so much information, so judgmental/moral and so sure you know the facts. You don't. It is basically 'he said/she said' as to whether it was consensual or not. Her story was full of inconsistencies and contradictions, the physical evidence was not indicative of rape, thus leading the SA to conclude there was not enough evidence to charge. He also said by extrapolating the BAL of .04 out to .1 (not well above) she would not be having blackouts or be incapacitated. However, you have chosen to believe him guilty. You have formed an opinion from subjectively filtering what supports your moral high ground and your argument.

Why do you think her boyfriend (whose DNA, btw, was also found on her garments), refused to talk with the SA? And her multiple partners don't count in her moral behavior...just his? The 'cleat chaser' reference may or may not be true, but it was part of the endless conversation, was seen on Twitter, has been deleted, and is easy to find references on Google. I'm not condoning any of it, but be fair in your conclusion.

Motives? All speculation. A woman scorned? No, you can't stay, I have to pick my girlfriend up in the morning. Embarrassment? Maybe a rival school's fan or Booster who sees an opportunity to ruin the chances for an additional Heisman or Championship for their 'enemy'. An attempt to level the playing field in recruiting? This is where the money I mentioned comes in. College football is a business. Reality! All schools are competing for that money and power, and unscrupulous fans and Boosters are not rare. I personally find it interesting that the accuser's lawyer is family related. Now what would she have to gain in pursuing this case?

The reference to the Duke LaCrosse players has nothing to do with winning the Heisman. It does have to do with falsely accusing someone of rape and ruining their life and possibly their opportunities. Unfortunately it is not uncommon to accuse a high profile athlete, and as horrific as an actual assault is, it is also terrible to be innocent of that charge...how do you prove a negative, how do you restore your reputation or realize that rape is always someone's first thought at the mention of your name.

I know nothing of who paid for Winston's lawyer...obviously he could not be expected to pay for him and it's irrelevant. Thank goodness someone did. You think he should not have had a lawyer because someone else paid? Hope you're never in that position.

Also, you are wrong...Winston did not win the starting position in the Spring, it was not decided by Coach Fisher until the week before the first game, and that is fact. The amount of alcohol consumed at bar is not fact.

This conversation is not about morality, it's about truth.

Have a good day, Mr. 'I am not an FSU fanboy'. We'll miss you rooting for us because you're a Floridian, but have made the moral decision not to. (Sarcasm...in case you missed it the second time.)

AlexPosada
AlexPosada

@JonOpperman Actually, Ohio State vacated a whole season of wins and their post-season hopes because the tattoo parlor was involved in a drug ring. Get your facts right. That being said, we at THE Florida State University are happy to once again be champions.

Adolfis
Adolfis

@Sandy2300 Like tod said sandy you are missing the bigger picture and focusing on a very unimportant part of it.


They way you support Winstons actions that night is sad. I wonder what other types of behavior you would let your kids get away with.


For that matter I wonder what Winstons parents think about what he did and how he treats women. I wonder what the women on the FSU campus think of this behavior.


You should really be part of the solution like tod said, not part of the problem!

toddgeist
toddgeist

@Sandy2300 I did not see at any place where Adolf said Winston was a leader in Dec. I see where he said that since he  was an athlete of an elite program that he should be held to a higher accountability.


By your reasoning only starters should have good morals, character  and ethics?


You are correct that there have been many players over the years from the big 3 in Florida. But there is one trend that I find disturbing. Of those big 3 why is it that the University of Florida has more double or triple the arrest of their schools athletic program than the other two? Are the Gator players acting up more than the other two? Or is it that the police there arrest first and ask questions later.


Now I know what you are going to say... Aaron Hernandez!!!!!!!!! Well, as you can tell by the way OSU's new head coach is handling that program how the trend from the recent past can be associated with a certain coach about players getting preferential treatment.


Sandy you are failing to grasp the obvious. The behavior Winston displayed that night with his roommates showed very poor integrity and character and 100% zero morals.


Condoning this behavior sets a poor example for todays youth to follow. Sandy you should realize that this act by a few players at FSU looked bad for your entire state not just the FSU football program. The time of programs like the one Barry Switzer ran are over with social media of today when a person can grab a phone and video a player doing something stupid. Just ask Riley Cooper. Yes I know he is in the NFL when that happened but the same principles apply.


Sandy stop being part of the problem by allowing kids to get away with behavior like this and be part of the solution by standing up for morality and character and yes for integrity as well.

Sandy2300
Sandy2300

Again, Adolfis, he was not the leader of any team in December of 2012, and it is untruthful to say that he was. I did not say he was not stupid. I will say, however, speaking of the three big schools you traditionally think of here in Florida, there are many, many 'faces of the program' that have been very stupid over the years. Seems they also forgot to keep in mind that they had higher accountability. The list of prominent athletes that have been in trouble with the law for every reason you can imagine is limitless. It would be interesting to compare those lists...doubt there would be very much difference in the length or the crimes. Which brings me to question your moral superiority and your frequent assault on my intelligence.

Adolfis
Adolfis

@Sandy2300 Well are you that ignorant. These athletes are held to a higher accountability. They represent the face of the program. It would not matter is a player is a starter with 3 years of experience or a frosh which has not taken one snap!


Untruthfull? Are you serious? They all admitted to it! They admitted to the gang bangs and train rides!


WHAT PLANET ARE YOU FROM?URANUS?

Sandy2300
Sandy2300

He was not the leader of any team when this happened, and it is untruthful for you to say otherwise.

rh2000
rh2000

@NoQNoSuperBowl @rh2000   Ya missed the point!  He put himself in a bad position doing what he did with so much to lose.  Yes he is young, but he is suppose to be the leader of his team with some intelligence?


So yes he is stupid, and yes, I think the fool probably did force himself on her and she is getting a little $$$ for it now.


joe Cabot!! Not knee jerk at all just being realistic and basing an opinion on the reading of information available to everyone.

JonOpperman
JonOpperman

We hold these kids and programs to higher standards than simply 'not-criminal', Joe.

Rape is a real issue affecting 1 in 6 women (yes, they are all someone's daughter, so your friends likely include a few victims and perpetrators), and the notion that elite college awards voters take this lightly, and even defend this kid's lack of 'integrity' is appalling.