Posted November 17, 2013

AP Poll: Baylor jumps Ohio State, Duke enters the Top 25 rankings after Week 12

Baylor Bears, Duke Blue Devils, Ohio State Buckeyes, Polls
Braxton Miller and Urban Meyer

Braxton Miller led the Buckeyes to yet another win, but the team still dropped a spot in the AP Poll. (Jeff Haynes/AP)

As if Ohio State fans didn’t feel slighted enough already. The Buckeyes, who won their 22nd consecutive game with Saturday’s 60-35 victory over Illinois, dropped to No. 4 in the newly released AP Poll on Sunday. Baylor jumped Urban Meyer’s team into the No. 3 spot following a 63-34 rout of Texas Tech. The Bears finished with 1,351 points. Ohio State checked in with 1,343.

Remember, the Coaches’ Poll — not the AP Poll — is factored into the BCS standings. The Buckeyes still sit at No. 3 in the Coaches’ Poll heading into Week 13.

Of course, undefeated Alabama and Florida State continue to hold the top two spots. The Crimson Tide and Seminoles will likely face off for the national championship should both keep winning. The complete AP Poll (with first-place votes in parentheses) is below:

1. Alabama (55)
2. Florida State (5)
3. Baylor
4. Ohio State
5. Oregon
6. Auburn
7. Clemson
8. Missouri
9. Texas A&M
10. Stanford
11. Oklahoma State
12. South Carolina
13. Michigan State
14. UCLA
15. Fresno State
16. Wisconsin
17. UCF
18. LSU
19. Arizona State
20. Northern Illinois
21. Louisville
22. Oklahoma
23. USC
24. Ole Miss
25. Duke

A few more thought from this week’s poll:

• Duke, which beat ACC Coastal foe Miami 48-30 this week, entered the rankings at No. 25. The Blue Devils are 8-2 and have won six straight games since losing 58-55 at Pitt on Sept. 21. Just how rare is it to see Duke sitting in the poll?

• Fresno State remains five spots ahead of fellow non-AQ-conference unbeaten Northern Illinois. NIU (10-0) is coming off a 48-27 victory over Ball State on Wednesday, and may have few remaining opportunities to leap the Bulldogs (9-0) if coach Tim DeRuyter’s team stays perfect.

• USC, which hasn’t been ranked since a 10-7 loss to Washington State on Sept. 7, cracked the poll this week at No. 23. The Trojans have won five of their last six games under interim head coach Ed Orgeron, none more impressive than Saturday night’s 20-17 upset of Stanford.

Agree or disagree with the latest Top 25? Let us know in the comments below.

94 comments
BuckeyeBucknuts
BuckeyeBucknuts

You know, as a Buckeye fan, I get it a little this year.  Except for the assumption that Baylor, with little or no history should "naturally" be ahead of Ohio State.  That is absolutely untrue.  Baylor is riding the coattails of teams like Oklahoma and Texas, let's be honest.  Their season is like a 100 year flood...or a once in a hundred ANYTHING.  Is their inflated poll status thus the result of "aw, how cute.  good for the loveable losers getting their moment in the sun."  This fan of the 22 straight win tradition-laden all-time classic college team doesn't think it, I KNOW the answer is "yes.".

thebigdawg3
thebigdawg3

Nice non-conference schedule:  Buffalo (not the Bills), San Diego State, Florida A&M and California.  You shouldn't even be in the top-4.

ajak1971
ajak1971

Ohio State beats Illinois 60-35. That is called a "victory". Baylor beats Texas Tech 63-34 and that is called a "rout". Buckeye fans do truly have something to complain about. What happened in Baylor's win to make voters change their minds and put them ahead of Ohio State?  If AP voters truly believe Baylor is a better team than by all means put them ahead of the Buckeyes but don't use the Texas Tech (rout)-Illinois (victory) as some sort of football litmus test that them suddenly thinking they have seen the light of day about Baylor. Where were these AP voters when Baylor took apart Oklahoma? We are strictly talking about here and now. Not who Baylor "might" beat next week or the following week. This yet another example of a completely flawed system.  For the record I am neither a Ohio State or Baylor fan. Simply calling it out as I see it.

TommyDoyle
TommyDoyle

if baylor wins out along with fsu, baylor should be higher. fsu will have only beaten clemson (florida and miami are stinking) and clemson is overrated anyway. baylor will have beaten oklahoma state, oklahoma and texas. 

BarryMaCaukiner
BarryMaCaukiner

I'll agree that the AP pollsters are far less intelligent than the college coaches as pollsters. That's just a fact (see: 1997 Michigan getting the AP share of the national title 'cuz the Maize 'n' Boo-hoo hadn't won a title in 49 years, when clearly Nebraska was the stronger team all around). 

Yet, Bucknuts fans would do well to remember that the AP poll has zilch to do with the BCS rankings and national title game. So, slowww your roll, take a deep breath, and just hope OSU doesn't falter along the way, and maybe - just maybe - things will still pan out for you.  On the downside, any chance of Ohio State getting the AP share of the national title is also now in jeopardy with Baylor hopping the 'Nuts.

The real issue here -- attn: all you sooo easily *sshurt Bucknuts fans -- is that pollsters know (along with anyone else with half a brain) that Texas Tech would put 60+ on Illinois. THAT is why Baylor hopped your beloved 'Nuts.

Charles23
Charles23

Many of you guys are whining about fairness. Take some advice, don't get your panties in a knot, the polls are never fair. Someone is always getting screwd, count on it. Even the forthcoming playoffs, someone is going to get it up the yoohoo. Best thing is not to be such a fan that it really matters, take it all in stride.

DavidFlaherty
DavidFlaherty

One might think that if there were 4 undefeated teams then Baylor and osu would play in a bowl game but I guess that's not how it may work.

GregSamick
GregSamick

Alabama barely beats 4-6 Mississippi State 20-7. But, they don't drop.

Ohio State beats Illinois 60-35, but Baylor moves ahead of them in AP poll.

AP poll is a joke. They have their favorite teams and that is just how it is.

_chewbucca
_chewbucca

Funny how the AP doesn't apply it's logic to Auburn or Alabama.  Both turned in performances Saturday that should have had them jumped using the AP's criteria.

MatthewEugeneHaag
MatthewEugeneHaag

Know what I am always amused by?  Well since we can't have a real conversation I will tell you all.  The amount of people that cheer for a conference rather than a team.  In much of their logic it would run like this.  I claim to be an SEC fan but really I like Vanderbilt.  Since Vandy plays in the SEC it must be a much better team than it's record would indicate.  Since I can't cheer for Vandy I can put down these inferior conferences that if Vandy played in them they would obviously dominate.  

Folks that retard 101 logic if I ever heard it.  Stop yelling about conference this and that.  Be for your team.  TEAM not conference.  If you are a Bama fan thats fine (Still think theres a TON of fair weather Bama Fans but thats a different convo). If you are a USC fan or an OSU fan fine.  Stop extolling the virtues of one conference over another.  See its cyclic anyway.  Right now South East schools are on top.  7 years or so ago it was Mid South Schools and before that West Coast schools.  Before that North and before that South East Coast.  Point is that things change.  They always will cause instead of playing for a winner recruits will eventually get tired of hearing about it and play for someone to beat the "Winner" so they can make a huge name for themselves.  Rooting for a conference (which is always changing) is kinda silly.  Find a team.  Enjoy a team.  Or two.  Or three.  Just stop talking about Big Ten hate.  Or SEC Bias.  Enough already.

jeffcooper71
jeffcooper71

I am conflicted. I hate Miami and Duke. How can I be happy that the Canes fell out of the top 25 when the Dookies just joined the top 25? 

tcorsaro
tcorsaro

People still love to hate OSU for Woody Hayes throwing cameras and beating people up?

BuckeyeBucknuts
BuckeyeBucknuts

(Maybe I'm not too ate-up because we've been here many times before.  Looking at the schedule... yup, Baylors not gonna be around in the end).

Dustin3
Dustin3

@thebigdawg3 Well, by that same standard neither should Florida St. They've played Nevada and Bethume-Cookman, with Idaho and Florida upcoming. Florida is a big name program, but this is their worst team in over 25 years. You can't selectively apply one criteria to one team while conveniently ignoring that same criteria for another team. That said, the Seminoles have a great team this year. Easily their best since 1999.

Bjamin96
Bjamin96

@TommyDoyle I don't think there's any question that FSU is a much better team than Balor, no matter who they play.  This is your first year being ranked with the big boys, just worry about winning your next game so you won't become irrelivent like Oregon...again.

Dustin3
Dustin3

@TommyDoyle That's a legit argument. The Big 12, from top to bottom, is stronger than the ACC Baylor's SOS will be higher than the Fl. St's by the end of the season.

AdamSWalburger
AdamSWalburger

@TommyDoyle The only team at the same level of Florida State is Alabama.  It was ridiculous Oregon was placed  ahead of them so long. 

jeffcooper71
jeffcooper71

@BarryMaCaukiner One advantage that I give to the AP pollsters, while coaches are coaching on Saturday AP pollsters can at least watch the games. I do recognize that there are a lot of them that do not.

grstallions87
grstallions87

@Charles23 You are correct they  are unfair, I mean with this new playoff system it will be team #5 crying because they deserve to be.  The examples from the past everyone knows like undefeated Auburn or how FSU who lost to the U were selected in front of the Hurricanes for the National Championship game or since I live in GA they are still complaining about a 2 loss LSU in the 08 game.The National Championship is still a mythical award since there isnt a true playoff system in place but the people who are stopping this are the University Presidents who make a ton of money via bonuses from getting those huge bowl game payoffs and dont care a bit about crowning a true #1 like the FCS does with a 16 team tourny and they get it done before Jan during the time btwn end of semester and back to school  now its the same University Presidents that scream playoffs will ruin a students athletes ability to earn high grades but on the other hand, never complain about taking away from study time during March Madness because of the cashola they get from being in that tourny.  They will just say after  the failure of the  BCS we give you this and we fans will have to live with it  and wait  another 20 years for any improvements in the new system.


The SEC will never do a home and home schedule because they feel their conference schedule makes up for the lack of quality teams on their before conference play begins aka the paycheck games for these schools who deserve that money for showing up  Next year  we, as in my team Ohio State have a home and home with Va Tech then Okla starts  which were scheduled over 10 years ago so you never know how they will be performing at the same level or not when its game time.  This argument will never be settled unless there is a system which the school Presidents have an opportunity to earn more money then what the current bowl system which allows 64 teams to earn some cash and for those kids to have a great time before its game time.

jarobertson
jarobertson

You just proved my argument . Ohio State gave up 35 points to Illinois. That's why Baylor jumped your team. Granted Bama turned the ball over 4 times, and most teams lose when that happens, but Mississippi State scored 7 on the Tide. Offense will win you a beauty contest. Defense wins titles.

neutralneutral
neutralneutral

@GregSamick All Ohio St needs to do from here on out is continue the streak, mend its wounded and improving where it needs to improve - polls and bowls be damned. Freshman Texas Tech QB Baker Mayfield's put up very similar if not better numbers than Nathan Scheelhaase on saturday. The end results were very similar. Nevertheless, tOSU drops and Baylor goes up. Props to Baylor for having a good team...but if the buckeyes keep winning the worst that happens is going 26-0. At that point who cares. The other numbers are arbitrary. 

JeffBockert
JeffBockert

@_chewbucca  Yep, the contract between ESPN and the SEC is a big factor. Auburn barely beat Washington State for Pete's sake. There is a bias and the only thing we can do about it as fans is stop buying products that are advertising with ESPN. We have the power but we need to know how to use it. It's all about money. 

jarobertson
jarobertson

Even funnier. It didn't happen, and it didn't happen because those who vote know more about the sport than those who blog on a web site. "Magically board on a quite street corner. Free frustration in our minds and our toes. Out of your brain on the 5:15"

TCUfan
TCUfan

@MatthewEugeneHaag Agreed. And I put out there with every comment, win or lose, my alma mater. Second is Baylor where my dad went and walked on in football and graduated law school . I'm thrilled for Baylor. 
 

That aside, As much as I don't particularly like FSU,  in my opinion. they are the best team in the country probably; But to be honest, I don't think anyone can say for sure that the top 4 undefeated teams wouldn't be beat by any other of the top 4 teams. This is the year the 4 team playoff should start and someone, whether ESPN, FOX, whom ever, should push for a +1. If there is more than one undefeated team at the end of the bowl games, no matter who it is, they have just as much claim to the MNC as anybody. And kudos to OSU. Winning 22 in a row in today's world of parity is pretty damn impressive no matter how you cut it.

SIBRI
SIBRI

@jeffcooper71 I can understand your sense of conflict.  Duke has the highest graduation rate in the BCS and Miami has the highest incarceration rate.

jeffcooper71
jeffcooper71

Plus, Duke in the top 25. I have some serious questions as to just how good the ACC really is.

DanielWojta
DanielWojta

@Dustin3 @thebigdawg3 Good point, however the big ten considered a weaker conference and teams that want to compete at a national title level need to to schedule better outside competition to establish relevancy.  Do teams from weaker conferences, and the best win for a big ten team this year is ND, which their second best team Michigan State has already lost to, deserve to be in title games?  Apparently per osu the answer is no..

Ohio State president E. Gordon Gee, In an interview with The Associated Press, the president at the university with the largest athletic program in the country said that TCU and Boise State do not face a difficult enough schedule to play in the national championship game.  

"I do know, having been both a Southeastern Conference president and a Big Ten president, that it's like murderer's row every week for these schools. We do not play the Little Sisters of the Poor. (edit to add Indiana, Illinois, Purdue come to mind)  We play very fine schools on any given day.  (out of conference games has played this year, Buffalo, San Diego State, Florida A&M and the 1-10 Cal Bears, really).

"So I think until a university runs through that gantlet that there's some reason to believe that they not be the best teams to [be] in the big ballgame." 

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5845736

CKd
CKd

@CaseyJensen @ajak1971  based on?  I get that TTU has a better overall record, but I don't believe they've beaten a team with a winning record this year. Illinois at least took it to a decent Cincinnati squad.  My only real point is the nitpicking - Put TTU up in Illinois for a game and I bet it would be very close.  There just isn't that much of a difference between the teams and yet it's used to justify something... 

OHCelt
OHCelt

@jarobertson Having scored 28 in just over one quarter, and with injuries reducing the defense to third string starters? Sure. Baylor coughed up 34 points, and did not pull away until the 3rd quarter. Yup, this makes perfect sense.

neutralneutral
neutralneutral

@jarobertson Giving up 34 to texas tech is not a shining achievement either. It's a battle of "my undefeated record is slightly better looking than your undefeated record." Staying undefeated wins titles.

DanielWojta
DanielWojta

@JeffBockert @_chewbucca that and winning 7 of the last national title games with 3 different teams winning those titles and Bama winning 3 out of the last 4, but don't let the facts get in the way of your argument. 

CKd
CKd

@Wesley11 @neutralneutral  TTU has only beaten teams with losing records.  Show me the good win TTU has had that makes them a good opponent.  Looking at Illinois' record, they at least beat a strong Cincinnati team. 

Wesley11
Wesley11

@neutralneutral  

True, but at least Texas Tech had twice as many wins as losses, the opposite being true for the high school team OSU played--and allowed to score 35 on them. Baylor's undefeated record IS better looking than OSU's undefeated record.

Wesley7
Wesley7

@TobyWaller  

Revisionist history much?

"OSU was scheduled to play Vanderbilt this year."

True, a game they scheduled NOT when Vandy was on the winningest streak in school history, but when Vandy was coming off two 2-10 seasons in a row. You can't tout Vandy as a missed opportunity when you only wanted them to be a cupcake. Coach Franklin hadn't called a single down when OSU put the impressive 4-20 team on their schedule...

"At some point, Vandy scheduled another opponent for the same date, which left OSU scratching their heads."

It wasn't a surprise. And Vandy didn't choose that date, the SEC home office did due to league expansion and having to find time for two new teams. EVERY SEC school had to cancel games, just like every school in any expanding conference has done before. Vandy informed them in letter form because it was a legal contract and that is standard procedure for records keeping purposes. (And Vandy's AD who sent the letter was a former professor at OSU's law school, so maybe he learned his "integrity" there?) Further, though the SEC hasn't gone on record as to why any given dates were chosen, it's likely because of the way the deal with Vandy was scheduled. Being a one off game rather than a home-and-home, there was no financial penalty to severing that game whereas there would have been to some other teams on Vandy's schedule so it stinks to lose a big name team, but it was cheaper. Put a penalty in the contract next time.

You can spin it as some shady thing because it fits your whining narrative, but it wasn't.

"FAMU was only scheduled because of their band, which was suspended."

You scheduled a football team because of their BAND? And you honestly wonder why the rest of the country laughs at OSU's Out of Conference schedule? YOU SCHEDULED A CUPCAKE SO THAT YOUR BAND COULD OUTSHINE THEIR BAND.

StevePerry
StevePerry

@DanielWojta @TobyWaller   The term you are looking for is moot.  As in, when you say Alabama should be ranked #1 because someone from their conference has won the NC game for 7 years in a row, your statement of not being an SEC backer is moot.

DanielWojta
DanielWojta

@TobyWaller LOL, I am not a SEC backer, just a realist and you are backtracking.  You first stated "and they pay their players (and lack the integrity to admit the truth)".  osu did lie it was proven they knew and lied about it, here is the proof, http://www.ncaa.com/news/football/article/2011-12-21/chronology-ohio-state-scandal.  Then knowing I would find this you restated it as the players didn't lie when you know the administration did.  So you can and should say "osu lied about additional benefits). If the NCAA doesn't have proof, they can't do anything no matter what you assume happened.  That was easy.

second, about the schedule, after Ohio State president E. Gordon Gee dismissed TCU and Boise State saying they didn't play anyone to be considered a national title contender, hmmm sound familiar, both teams offered to play osu at osu, osu declined.  Hows that for integrity (again that was easy) You can't blame the SEC for doing something you have also done, it makes you equally as guilty and invalidates your argument.   I am from big ten country and even I am aware of the very soft non conference schedule of every team.  

Geographical area is different than home stadiums so you just invalidated your first argument, or backtracked.  How would a bowl game in the midwest be?  Who knows, as it will never happen.  The big ten could easily hold a bowl game in their market, at their stadiums, and they never have because they don't want to, so the fantasy aspect of your argument is mute.  You can't argue against something that does not exist.  The big ten has had a rose bowl affiliation for years and back when they were relevant they used to win games against the pac 10 now when the SEC wins national title after national title they only argument is "you couldn't win one in Minnesota?"  Comical and again, fantasy land.  (if it doesn't exist, neither does your argument). 

Can a big ten team be considered for a national title game?  Hmm, even BB from Wisconsin left to go to Arkansas for a chance to win a national title (and so far that has worked out poorly for him). 

Listen, does the SEC have lower admission standards, do they graduate less players, have I have to assume so, even I would say that the big ten is a better academic conference.  Though you lose better players when they can't get admitted, and seriously, its tough to sell a player in FL, TX and So Cali (the admitted hot bed of recruiting) on playing games in Dec in the midwest.  Good academic conf, average football conf. Again, the biggest big ten win this year is ND, which your #2 team in the conf lost to.  Please research your arguments before posting them.. Thanks.

TobyWaller
TobyWaller

OSU was scheduled to play Vanderbilt this year. At some point, Vandy scheduled another opponent for the same date, which left OSU scratching their heads. Weeks later, Vandy sent OSU a letter, lol. How's that for SEC integrity? OSU was forced to scramble for an opponent and found one in SDSU. FAMU was only scheduled because of their band, which was suspended. Unfortunately, the game was a joke - kind of like Alabamhole scheduling Chattanooga - kind of like Missouri scheduling Murray State – kind of like South Carolina scheduling Coastal Carolina – kind of like Georgia scheduling Appy St – kind of like Vandy scheduling Austin Peay – kind of like Florida scheduling Georgia Southern – kind of like Tennessee scheduling Austin Peay – kind of like Auburn scheduling Western Carolina – kind of like Texas A&M scheduling Sam Houston St – kind of like Ole Miss scheduling Southeast Missouri St – kind of like LSU scheduling Furman – kind of like Miss St scheduling Alcorn St – kind of like Arkansas scheduling Samford. The difference being, of course, that the SEC schedules these lower-division schools every single year. Since 2005, no other conference has played nearly as many lower-division schools as the SEC – in fact, it’s not even close.

SEC teams rarely leave their geographic area. On the rare occasions that they do...they tend to lose (I guess that’s why they refuse to leave their little area). 

SEC teams rarely play true away games. On the rare occasions that they do...they tend to lose (I guess that’s why they refuse to play true marquee matchups at the other team’s stadium).

SEC teams play bowl games that are in their geographical area. Do you honestly believe the SEC would have the same bowl record had they played in Minnesota's outdoor stadium in late December or early January? Really?


OSU players didn't "lie" about anything. They sold their own possessions. DeVier Posey got a 5-game suspension for being overpaid by a whopping $3.07. Meanwhile, Manziel signed thousands of autographs (that he obviously didn't do for free) and received a 0.5 game suspension. Yeah, that's about right for the SEC. At least one former Alabama player recently admitted to receiving cash payments - no investigation, no punishment, no forfeiture of games. Yeah, that's about right for the SEC, too.   

Why didn’t you mention the well-documented fact that the SEC oversigns more players than all other conferences combined? Gee, I wonder…

DanielWojta
DanielWojta

@TobyWaller @DanielWojta .  " they inflate their record by playing teams from the Sun Belt" SO who does OSU have to show this year as out of conf opponents?  San Diego State, Buffalo and the impressive Florida A&M, yea, really.  Oh and lets not forget the 1-10 California Golden Bears, those stellar out of conf games are a fact you can't hide from. "Their bowl games are home games" comical as, no, they do not play bowl games in their home stadiums and the reason you went that route is they win major bowl games, unlike the big ten who when they get into bowl games, major BCS bowls, they lose.  Finally, "they pay their players and lack the integrity to admit the truth", that's rich coming from a conference that has osu lying about cash payments/tattoos, selling items, yea, they didn't have the integrity to be honest even after it was proven they knew.  But again, don't let the facts get in the way of your argument.  This is way too easy

TobyWaller
TobyWaller

@DanielWojta 

The $EC is only perceived to be the best, because they flat-out refuse to travel; their 'away' games are often played at neutral sites;  they inflate their record by playing teams from the Sun Belt; they consistently play more lower division teams than any other conference (heck, some $EC teams have played multiple lower-division teams in the same season!); they start their conference games earlier than any other conference to make it easier to recover from a loss; their bowl games are home games; they oversign more than any other conference; oh, and they pay their players (and lack the integrity to admit the truth). But don't let the facts get in the way of your argument.